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Reimagined Workforce - Workforce Transformation
Stories from people who are driving workforce transformation to deliver business performance and value that matters.
Reimagined Workforce - Workforce Transformation
Transforming Rural Healthcare Workforce with Heather Pearce of Thrive Medical
Welcome to the Reimagined Workforce Podcast, where I, Kath Hume, bring you conversations that inspire and challenge the status quo of workforce dynamics. Today, we're excited to have Heather Pearce, the innovative mind behind Thrive Medical in Broken Hill, join us for a riveting discussion on revolutionizing the rural healthcare workforce. Heather's journey from an eager occupational therapy graduate to a pioneer in rural health service shines a beacon of hope for communities facing similar struggles with recruitment and retention.
Our chat with Heather illuminates the transformative power of entrepreneurial spirit and strategic thinking in addressing the critical healthcare needs of remote areas. From her bold decision to establish a comprehensive health service center to the creation of inventive strategies like in-house daycare arrangements, Heather's narrative is filled with lessons on fostering a culture of growth and independence. We also touch on the delicate balance of managing family life alongside a career, a theme that will resonate with many listeners juggling the same plates.
As we unravel Heather's story, we reflect on the collective efforts that can lead to impactful changes, such as the successful campaign for an MRI provider number that rippled beyond Broken Hill. This episode is a deep dive into the heart of workforce innovation, showcasing how empathy, flexibility, and a collaborative spirit can reshape not only healthcare accessibility but also the livelihoods of those who call rural communities home. Join us for this enlightening exploration of how targeted workforce strategies are making a profound difference in the lives of many.
The Reimagined Workforce podcast is brought to you by Workforce Transformations Australia Pty. Ltd.
All opinions expressed are the speaker's and not the organisations they represent.
If you have a story about a workforce transformation to share and would like to be a guest on this podcast, please contact us at kathhume@workforcetransformations.com.au.
Connect with Kath Hume on LinkedIn
Purchase Kath's book Learn Solve Thrive: Making a difference that matters in a fast and complex world:
Learn Solve Thrive: Making a difference that matters in a fast and complex world : Hume, Kathryn Lee: Amazon.com.au: Books
It's different and we don't want to be the same. We don't want to, you know, because that's not working. To be honest. In workforce retention and recruitment, the same is not working. You have to do something different.
Voice over:This is the Reimagined Workforce Podcast from Workforce Transformations Australia, the podcast for People and Culture Professionals seeking to drive meaningful, impactful and financially sustainable workforce transformation through curiosity, creativity and data science. In this podcast, we hear from talented and innovative people making a positive difference for their people, their organisations and those their organisations serve. They share stories and learnings to help others on their path to transforming their workforce today and tomorrow. Now here's your host, Kath Hume.
Kath Hume:Heather Pearce is a creative thinker and problem solver whose empathetic approach enables her to come up with some less traditional solutions to the chronic workforce challenges she faces in the rural town of Broken Hill in far west New South Wales. She grew up in a farming community in Eyre Peninsula where she developed a love of rural communities and their people. She studied occupational therapy at the University of South Australia and established Thrive Medical in 2013, with the goal of providing a holistic, client-centred, quality practice where people will always come first. Heather is driven to continue to improve her leadership skills to best support her team. Heather's approach to leadership is about nurturing independence and focuses on individual growth as well as growth as an organization to best support her community.
Kath Hume:Heather was introduced to me by Dr Cath Cosgrave, who was on the podcast last year speaking about her Attract, Connect, Stay framework. Heather's stories represent the dreams I had when I started this podcast. She has some incredible stories of how she and her colleagues are finding creative solutions to workforce challenges that they face. Heather Pearce, welcome to the Reimagined Workforce podcast. It is, and I have loved our conversations. You are such an energetic and enthusiastic person who is so positive, and I can't wait to get into this conversation and learn more about all those creative solutions that you've brought to life. So, to get started, would you mind just telling us a little bit about your career to date and your current role?
Heather Pearce:So I graduated with an Occupational Therapy degree in 2002. And at that time there was a surplus of OTs in the industry and not enough jobs. So I remember 10 of us going for a job in Port Augusta, which is about, you know, three hours from Adelaide and it's quite a remote community. And I didn't get that job and I remember thinking, gee, why did I go to uni for four years if I can't get a job with this degree? And so I ended up getting a job as a case manager, which you could have had a variety of different, you know qualifications you could have been a nurse or a social worker or a physio or an exercise physiologist and I thought that would tie me over until I found an OT job.
Heather Pearce:I sort of got thrown in the deep end without a great deal of clinical supervision and we were quite understaffed. I think there were eight positions and there were three filled and I ended up staying in that role for nearly four years and at that time I still hadn't done any you know, bread and butter clinical OT work. I wanted to go overseas and I thought, you know, to be able to be competitive in that market. You know, in England they don't have a workers' compensation system, so I thought I'm going to be really limited in what I can do. So I did some work in aged care before I went over and then some locuming as well, and that was really helpful just to get my skill base up. It was baptism of fire because I really didn't have the skill set to be doing quite a lot of the work that I was. But I learned really quickly and I learned also how to network with my people that I went to uni with to, you know, equipment suppliers and you know can you check this for me which was, I think you know, really taught me a lot about seeking out your own connections for learning.
Heather Pearce:We then went overseas and I worked for a year in the UK and my husband at the time was from Broken Hill. So we came back to Adelaide and I took on a leadership role in the same area as I'd been working before I left, so in that injury management sort of space. I then got pregnant with my second child and thought actually I don't want to do management while I've got young children. So I started with an ABN and I just did some contracting work to one of the main companies who I'd done a lot of work with, and around that time Ryan wanted to move back to Broken Hill. So you know, I'd sort of that had been the deal that I'd, if he moved to the UK with me, I'd move back to Broken Hill with him. So we moved back to Broken Hill and there were no there was no work in Occ rehab at that time.
Heather Pearce:So I took a job at the hospital as a pediatric OT, which you know, and I think that tells you a lot about occupational therapy, that you can do all these different areas and transition really quickly as well, which you know is the beauty of the, the degree I think so.
Heather Pearce:I did that for a few years and then I guess didn't really feel like I fitted with in terms of I gues s, the scope of work that I could see possible and that I really wanted to do and, I guess, the limitations of a public health system, which is, you know, they've got a lot of people to try and service. So I guess saw the need for private practice then and started up my own business in 2013 and just started renting a room, then eventually got some more staff with me, another occupational therapist and an admin support officer. And then, yeah, we bought or I bought an old house which needed renovating and then we, yeah, we grew in that space to have three doctors, a physio, a speechy, another OT psychologist, and we had, yeah, we were chock-a-blocker it was. Sometimes we look back and think how did we all fit in that?
Heather Pearce:little space um, yeah, lucky, we liked each other because we're all on top of each other, but what it did is it created this real family sort of environment and culture within the organization and, um, and that was really what set us apart before I look back.
Voice over:So you know, there.
Heather Pearce:There were parts where they were really difficult, but there were parts that were great too. And then fast forward I guess another you know five years on from there and my paths crossed with a gentleman called Steve Bradford. So Steve is from Broken Hill and you know a very successful businessman. You know he's in the civil construction and mining space and he wanted more for broken hill in terms of services. He desperately wanted emma and broken hill to have an mri machine and his dad had actually needed an mri and there wasn't one available in broken hill and I guess it got the radford family thinking well, you know, if it's not available for us, then it's not available for anyone else, and how do we fix this problem? So you know, steve in Steve's Bay was just like I'll just go out and buy an MRI, and and that time we're talking.
Heather Pearce:I'm like you can't just buy an MRI. It's um, you know it needs this big chilly unit and you need a radio, you need radiographers, you need a radiologist. Yeah, there's all this like back end um that you need. And I guess the year before that um steve had bought this old rsl club which was had gone into administration so that was sitting there unused and you know, and steve's really charismatic and he's like let's do this, you know, let's, let's create this service for broken hill. And and I really, you know, I said I said yep, let's do it without really understanding A, what need was there and then B, what it was going to look like. So lucky he did.
Heather Pearce:Because I guess today, fast forward, we've been in the building for three years and we built we call it a comprehensive medical allied health care services, imaging practice. So we have usually two doctors at any given time, about 10 allied health staff including occupational therapists, physios, exercise physiologists, speech pathologists. We have a naturopath, we have an imaging. So we have three radiographers MRI, ct, x-ray, ultrasound, mamo and we've got a density machine. And then I guess our main part of our business, or I guess where most of the revenue is derived, is the NDIS sector and we have four supported independent living houses, so where we provide 24-hour care for people with disabilities.
Kath Hume:Wow, you're busy.
Heather Pearce:That's a bit of a squeal, sorry.
Kath Hume:I just love the visionary nature of both you and steve your ability to say you know broken hill needs this, so let's do it, rather than say broken hill needs this. Oh, that's a shame.
Heather Pearce:We're a regional, rural community and we can't have that so yeah, when you look at the mri, there's so many reasons why we shouldn't have done it. Yes, there's like so many logistical. You know, the servicing for an MRI is like very costly. It has to be kept very cold. We live in the middle of the desert. We didn't know if there was a volume At that point. We didn't have a provider number for the MRI, so everyone had to privately pay for it. So there were all those factors that went it doesn't make sense to put one here, but we knew there was a massive need, so and that to to. I guess that's really what I've learned from Steve is that yes, there's red tape and there's barriers, but really what you have to do is you have to go. Is this important?
Kath Hume:and if it is, then you have to, you know, find ways, alternative ways of solving those problems yeah, it's funny because I think too about that whole philosophy of lean thinking and how you do minimum viable product and you don't jump in with massive investments. And there's so much, so many red flags in that whole thing saying don't do this and some people might say, yeah, but I guess if you've got the money, you can risk these things. And yeah, there's, there is that. But I think, just understanding that people's lives are impacted and that he had that real empathy because his family had needed it and so understanding that there'd probably be other families, I just love that people who have the capability to and make that investment can do it and see the bigger picture.
Heather Pearce:Yeah, and I think also what I took like when I reflect on it. By no means am I a product matter expert about anything to do with imaging and I usually preface what I'm saying with just remember, I'm an occupational therapist.
Kath Hume:I'm an OT.
Heather Pearce:I don't know what I'm really talking about, but I think it's like a big bag that I use really lay use, really layman terms, because that's that. That's probably my level of understanding. You know, to be honest, it's um, I'm certainly not an expert, but I think if you have a passion to make a change and if you can actually have those structured um for me it was mentors so someone like Steve to go no, that's like, don't put up with that, that's um, that's not primary health care. And he didn't know what primary health care meant. To be honest, he just said but why did we have to? Why should we miss out just because we live in the country?
Heather Pearce:Um, and really that's what primary health care is is making sure that there's services equitable for all of australia. Um, and unfortunately, how things are set up in rural and remote health is that we don't often have, you know, those services available because of those factors that we talked about, because you know people look at putting an MRI and they'll go, oh, is it going to pay off? And actually right now, you know we're fully booked for that MRI. We've got specialists who now refer back, so people are having to travel to Adelaide to have these, um, you know, to have the undertaken quite regularly actually, and now they can have that done locally. So it is filling those gaps. But I think, yeah, that whole risk versus reward is something you really need to think about.
Kath Hume:And I think, coming from a person who lives in the city I was working with a client last year and there was one of her staff members wasn't able to attend something for three days because she had to take her daughter to Adelaide and it just really rung true for me that, oh wow, if that was me, I'd go and pick up my kid from school, take them, drop them back, yet I would never have had to take three days out of work to be able to do that. And I'm just thinking about, then, the workforce implications. If that whole community is faced with that, what does that do in terms of the workforce for that community? So you're not only impacting the health outcomes for people, but you're also enabling them to have that work-life balance, and health doesn't have to be the thing that takes them away from the life that they're trying to live.
Heather Pearce:No, exactly because you think you have four weeks annual leave. If that's taken, taken like you're having to use that to take people to appointments or to, that is a big yeah. You know, and you're right, that's. It's a consideration a lot of people don't think until they have to. You know, move somewhere. Actually, a physiotherapist, um, he's going to japan next week and he said he paid the same amount for the flight to get from sydney to japan as he paid to get from Broken Hill to Sydney, and not only that, he had to go.
Heather Pearce:I think he's having to stop in Dubbo so he can get back, yeah yeah, it's those things that I think people, yeah, don't really understand in terms of trying to get places for appointments or, you know, in that case, for leave. But it is, you know, if you can provide more that you can provide within your own community, the more equipped you're going to be to keep people here and to make rural living more attractive.
Kath Hume:Yeah, there's lots of things I want to talk about there, but let's just jump to your reimagined workforce. What are you thinking that that looks like?
Heather Pearce:Yeah, I think the reimagined workforce has to be very targeted to that individual employee's needs and what they're looking for their employer to provide. And I know for lots of employers they'll go. I don't have time or energy to put this is our policy on this and I don't think we can do that. To be honest, I think it involves employers to look at the barriers that you have in trying to engage your workforce and systematically and individually solve those.
Kath Hume:And that's definitely what you've done. I can't wait to hear you tell some of your stories. So could you paint a picture, maybe for us, of the workforce challenges that you face living in a rural community? And then we'll talk about the solutions that you found in a rural community, and then we'll talk about the solutions that you've found.
Heather Pearce:Yeah, certainly so. Childcare is a huge problem. So we've had staff who've moved here, professional staff, clinical psychologists, occupational therapists who we've wanted to start, and we've had a wait list there for those services. So think of these families that are having to travel away from your regional area because they can't access these services. So you think you've won the lottery. And then you say to them when can you start? And they say when I get childcare? And I'm on the wait for childcare and it's a two-year wait list. I guess the other challenge would be allied health recruitment, which we're not aligned there. You know, going back to my story about 10 of us going for a job in Port Augusta if you can imagine how drastically that's flipped. You know we'll recruit and not just pay recruitment agencies but do anything to recruit and sometimes we don't get any applicants. So yeah, it's a, and I know we're not aligned there. I know that's. You know, sometimes people in Melbourne can't recruit, so it's not just us.
Kath Hume:But that certainly is more challenging, I think, the more remote you are and one of the things that I was amazed about when I was doing workforce planning in health is just the fact that we don't necessarily have a supply issue. We have a maldistribution issue. So there's disproportionately more difficult for certain communities and I obviously Broken Hill is one, all right, so I'm really keen to get on to these creative solutions that you've come up with. So what I do like is that you've got those constraints but you've managed to work within them anyway. So I'm really keen because when I started the podcast, as I said before, this is what I really was keen to find people who said, yeah, it's hard, it's difficult, there's challenges, but I'm going to find these creative solutions and just thinking outside the box I know that's very cliché, but just coming up with, like what Steve did just say we haven't got an MRI. There's a whole lot of reasons why we can't have an MRI, but I'm going to buy one anyway. So can you talk to us about your solution to childcare?
Heather Pearce:Yeah, so I'll use Phoebe and she's probably sick of me using her name, but Phoebe was my first ever employee and she, yeah, was remarkably important in building the business from the get-go, because we just thought the same and you know she was fantastic. She had a very strong business growth mindset as well, so invaluable to me in those first few years. So she met a local boy and man sorry, big man and then he, you know he was from Broken Hill. She wasn't from Broken Hill, she wanted to move. So they moved to Wagga and you know he changed his career. So he was a plumber and then he did a traineeship as a livestock agent and then they placed him back in Broken Hill, which I was, like you know, overjoyed with yeah, that's right.
Heather Pearce:But Phoebe was not so overjoyed, anyway. And then I said, phoebe, you can help me with this wait list? And she said I would, heather, but that's the two-year wait list for childcare. So at that point I've got three children and my eldest, son, cameron, had gone away to boarding school. So I thought that room's free during the day I'm at work. My house is vacant. I said, uh to Phoebe, like why don't you just, um, winnie can come here. And then Amanda, who had looked after my children her youngest daughter just sort of fell in place, had just started school so she had some more time on her hands. So I said to Amanda do you want to come and look after Winnie? And then, um, then we looked at the family daycare rules and we're like I wonder how we'd go, looking at, like do you really have more kids? And she's like, oh, she's one of those amazing women that say, oh, the more kids, the better, more, better.
Voice over:I know I'm like.
Kath Hume:I agree to a point. One is very hard to look after. Anything more than five.
Heather Pearce:yeah, the odds are against you, yeah you'll never find those words coming out of my mouth. She's remarkable. So within, I reckon, three months, we had five children, wow. So we followed the same rules that family daycare they have. So we had, you know, two under two and then whatever up to five. And it was actually really lovely as a way to get to know our staff more, because they, you know, they're coming in while I'm running out late for work and, um, the only drawback was paul cameron, who came home and he's like didn't ever I was like, oh, it's fine, they're like we're going away anyway.
Heather Pearce:Um, so, yeah, we, we eventually moved out of my house and into another. Um, we rented a house and the way I guess I looked at it is, if you're trying to pay locum staff, you'd have to pay the locum wage, which is higher than, like, your normal hourly rate. Women within our own community who actually want to come back into the workforce. You get that continuity of care. So you say Phoebe would script a wheelchair and it's actually when it gets delivered, it's the wheelchair that she's wanted, not someone else's. That you've gone. Geez, why did they pick this one and give them Runa? You know there's three corn jacks everywhere and that has no. I would have gone with this. So it's not that consistency that you sort of need.
Heather Pearce:I think all allied health. Really it was financially. It solved a problem for us because then we could provide occupational therapy, psychology with support workers. We have 40 support workers in the NDIS side of our business and that's made us an employer of choice, because people want to come and work with us, because we do have childcare and it's also created like people who probably wouldn't have chosen care work they've gone. Oh well, yeah, I'll give that a shot. So it's probably created a different cohort as well, joining the workforce which is really hard to recruit to that area. And then, interestingly, the hospital contacted me and said you know, we've got the same problem. Can you provide childcare to our staff? And I was like it's in my house.
Voice over:I don't know.
Heather Pearce:For any of my other children, it would be giving up their rooms as well.
Heather Pearce:So, yeah, but I guess that's the way we overcame the childcare problem.
Heather Pearce:In terms of allied health recruitment, we and I know it's not the only way, but we do take students who are in their like, third and fourth or any stage, their placement actually, um, and we're lucky enough to have to find katie in our last um, like she did a placement last year with us from flinders university and you know she wrote in her cover letter that she was pretty quiet and introverted.
Heather Pearce:And then we found out she does pole dancing and she's like amazingly talented, she's so fit and her core is incredible. Anyway, and then she was tossing up between us and another employer when she graduated and she was looking for her first role and I may have put in the email, like if you sign this contract, we'll put a pole, we'll install a poll in for you, and when I, oh I take people through the practice and there's like these six reformer pilates machines, it's these two poles, and I feel I need to tell the story. But, and interestingly though, katie is now doing her training to become a, like a pole dancing instructor and she doesn't have a pole in adelaide, so she loves coming to Brokert Hill because she you know she's doing her thing and she's able to now instruct others, you know as well. So I think that's probably an example of other people probably thinking you're a bit crazy, but it worked Absolutely.
Kath Hume:Yeah, and look what it does for the rest of the community. And I think the way that you've just simplified it and said, okay, what does this person need? And you've actually asked and you've gone to the effort of finding out what the barriers are and address the barriers, rather than just say, oh you know, we're in this pretty commitment, we can't do anything about it.
Heather Pearce:Yeah, and it sort of sets the tone as well. I was talking to a doctor we're trying to get to come back and she said would you look at part-time? I said I've just installed a poll for someone. I mean, what's someone look at part-time? Like, if I'm willing to do that, like? I guess, the way we see it and we do offer a lot of flexibility, for example, school holidays We've got some staff who are married to teachers, who take every school holidays off, and that's fine, but we're more. I think we'd rather a service who's able to offer a service for 10 weeks and not for two weeks than not have any service at all. So I think it's changing your attitude towards it has to be like this, whereas it doesn't really have to be like that. You can make it however you want to make it and deliver the service how you do. I think the main thing is delivering a service, a great service, a really client-centred, and getting the right people with the same mindset as you.
Kath Hume:Ethos yeah.
Heather Pearce:Yeah, exactly same values. And then, once you've got that, you can make the rest of it work.
Kath Hume:Yeah, I was really lucky to go on a trip in 2019 around Hunter, new England, so that's another sort of semi-rural area of New South Wales, but I was really interested at the time. We were in drought and talking to people consistently. They would say oh, you know, the drought is making things really hard to attract workforce at the moment and I was quite fascinated. You know, I'm very much a city slicker. I haven't really done any work on farms and things and um, I learned that it was because they had to go home and hand feed their animals and it was very interesting to me to think oh, lots of these people have got two jobs, they've got their life at work in their health system, but they've also then got farms that they're running, which are businesses. So I think that that flexibility is enabling that as well and I suspect then providing more sustainability for the towns because they're able to maintain their farms as well.
Heather Pearce:Yeah, and I think also just tapping to that, like I guess what does someone see as work-life balance, and that I think that is such crucial part of recruitment. Now, if you can provide what you know um people wanting in terms of work life balance, for me that's not the absence of stress or you know hours, it's having flexibility. So if I want to take, you know, two days off for my children, I can do that um so it it's.
Heather Pearce:It's trying to tap into what. What makes someone tick really and really, and what you can do as an employer to tweak what you're offering. I think.
Kath Hume:This is Kath's philosophy of life is, I think it comes down to, people want choice and so that rigidity to say, oh, flexibility looks like this, and stipulate, you know you might work three days or two days or you know the whole hybrid working discussion that's going on.
Kath Hume:I think my thought is, or ponderance is, that when we try and define that too much, that adds stress to people. I like the ability to say, oh, you know, when my kids were little, my kids are older now, but if they had a sports day, then I could just block out my calendar and go to the sports day, but it didn't have to have that every week, you know, and so it was swings and roundabouts and you'd make up for it. And I understand that we need in large organisations especially to have monitoring and policies and that sort of thing, large organisations especially to have monitoring and policies and that sort of thing. But I also think, empowering leaders, I think, to be able to work with their staff, to be able to have those relationships, to manage that not too dictatorially. The other thing that I was really coming through in this story is the ability for collaboration in this town. So Steve obviously has his area of expertise. He didn't understand primary health.
Kath Hume:You understand primary health and health in general. Don't understand MRIs necessarily, but you're coming together, but that's okay you don't have to be an expert. You're actually just working really well together and same with your staff and going and finding the childcare person you know. You're just knowing where people are at and having that empathy to say I know what that person's looking for. I know what that person's looking for and marrying it all up is a loving that creativity.
Heather Pearce:Yeah, and, to be honest, that came from many years as an OT and what you develop, I think, in that therapeutic self is empathy. So you go, okay, well, how would I feel if I couldn't use my arm after I've come back home, you know, from a stroke, or how would I do that? And you know, if you think like that, then that transfers into as a leader. Okay, that would be really hard because you've moved here, you want to work, how do you? How do we get you back in the workforce? So, I think, being able to just put yourself in someone else's shoes and think, okay, well, rather than go, I they're never at work and you know they're always sick or that, why like? Why are they? And trying to work out what's behind some of those behaviors, I think, um, that goes a long way in terms of trying to solve them, because you can get the key motivators of of what's causing the end result of the behavior that you're seeing often I've got one more question because I'm conscious of time, and that's just around measurement.
Kath Hume:So I know there's probably people listening saying, yeah, but how do you measure your impact, because we're all on the hook to do that so much today. What measures have you got in place or what indicators have you got that are telling you that you're moving in the right direction?
Heather Pearce:Yeah, I guess growth. You know there's a few ways that we measure that Staff retention if they stay with us and why they leave. I think that's a really key one. Generally, a skilled workforce, like an allied health, leave because they're moving towns, and I think that's a really key one if you're able to hold on to them up to that point, I mean, and sometimes you will lose people along the way because there is that you know the values don't actually align and that's not a bad thing.
Heather Pearce:But I guess the other measurable key things like any business we have, you know, billable rates as well that we have to maintain to be able to be financially viable and continue to operate. We're continuing to grow as a business and diversify, which I think is pretty important as well. So it's hard to measure innovation and creativity, but I think, if you can look at, are we doing different work than what we did last year? And we continue to do that? So I think that's a really good measure and that's because I think of this like, if you're creative in how you do some things, that flows on to people going okay, we can probably do this as well, because we, you know it, um, it encourages people to, to flex the rules a bit or not break the rules, but go. How else could we do it? And that's, I think, really what you want in your workforce. You want them to be using initiative and using strategic thinking. So if we want to end up here, what things do we need to do to get there? And I think if you can equip your leaders into doing that, then, jeez, you're a long way ahead, absolutely.
Heather Pearce:So I don't think I answered that very well. We probably don't measure as well as we should, and that's, um, that's probably one of my deficits as a leader. I'm more like, I guess my strength is in that oh, there's need, let's go and, um, you know how can we fix that? How can we like, let's solve, yeah, and then the rest of my team's going, all right, we haven't done this bit yet. So, like you know, that um drove me back, so actually probably mel, who's outside, probably better one to talk to about how we measure it, um, but I think we do get staff satisfaction, um, reporting as well, and that's, you know, we did, we do that annually and that's always quite positive.
Kath Hume:So I think culturally, like within the organization, we're doing something right and I think that probably comes back to some of those factors we spoke about and I think that collaboration, again, you know, if you're not, if you're not worried about the metrics, as long as you've got someone who is and who can um pull you back into life not that you're not worried about them, sorry, but you've got your focus on um more the problem solving, one of the things that um really stands out for me too.
Kath Hume:When you mentioned around people come in and they see reformer Pilates machines, and I think that how we build culture is we try and create symbols and I think, unintentionally, you've probably, you know, put a really big symbol there for people to say we try to think outside the box, we try creative solutions, and here's one of them. But it probably gives people that mindset that you've mentioned earlier to just say, oh okay, I'm this. This is different. This is a place where I've got a little bit more leeway to to try things and I'm probably not going to be shot down if I come up with something, come up with an idea I'd actually said yes to these polls, and then I was second guessing myself, to be honest, because I'm like, what sort of medical practice has polls, seriously, heather?
Heather Pearce:and then I read this book, and it was diary of a CEO, and he talks about how they got this. You know money to start, and they put you know ginormous big blue slide from the top, yeah, I know.
Heather Pearce:And so what it created, though, was this fun like fun yeah yeah, and um place where everyone wanted to work and he said it was the most photographed thing of the year. I think he said I'll probably get the numbers wrong but like $200,000 of investment and then the slide cost $15,000. It was quite considerable in terms of when you're probably trying to pay wages, and I remember reading that and just going actually, no, the pole can stay. It's sort of that same mindset. It's different and we don't want to be the same. We don't want to, you know, because that's not working. To be honest, in workforce retention and recruitment, the same is not working. You have to do something different.
Kath Hume:Yeah, because the world is changing too.
Heather Pearce:Yeah, and generations are changing. This workforce wants completely different things to what when I was going through. You know I'm 43, that's a big difference from when I started my career to what this generation wants. So I think we need to change too.
Kath Hume:Absolutely, and the other thing that I've mentioned a couple of times on the podcast is just the fact that individuals need to change too. So what I needed five years ago is completely different to what I want now, and, you know, in five years' time, who knows? So it's just that constant conversation that we need to be having to just make sure we're all aware, and it sounds like you're definitely on doing that.
Heather Pearce:And I love that about Kath's research actually when she's so targeted, so like early career leaving it at least yes. Like there's certain people at different points in their career that would really fit with us. So you know, how do we get our message out to those groups, and that's, I guess, working with Kath's really made us think more about that.
Kath Hume:Yeah, cool, I will link to see if I can find a link or get that of you and also the book that you mentioned there too. Oh yeah, I like the sound of that.
Heather Pearce:Yeah, can I just mention one thing? Actually, when you talked about collaboration, I think we talk about collaboration within our individual communities and I guess the power of collaboration bigger than that is, for example, steve, with this MRI. So we couldn't get a provider number for it for the first year of operation, and during that was COVID, you know. So people couldn't travel to Adelaide for an MRI, they couldn't go to Mildura, which is across the Victorian border, and the nearest is Dubbo, which is 800 kilometres away. So you know, it was that time when Mark Coulton came out, who was the MP, and we just went this is ridiculous, mark, like what could we do here? And Mark said this is ridiculous. So he took it to the health minister and then they deregulated all the um.
Heather Pearce:So it used to be that you couldn't apply for a new MRI provider number, yep, and then they deregulate the whole thing so anyone in rural Australia can apply for a new provider number, and that was just through collaboration. So that was just Steve, you know, and it wasn't just Steve, actually, it was everyone Roy Butler as well, like all levels state, local, federal, going okay, this is an issue, we need to fix it. And if you're not sort of, if you don't have collaboration, if you're just in your little silo, you're never going to achieve those big changes. I think yeah absolutely.
Kath Hume:That's a great example. I really love that Small town, big changes that that's a great example.
Heather Pearce:I really love that Small town. Big changes that's really cool. Yeah, that's probably one of the things that I think we are most proud of that.
Kath Hume:we contributed to yeah, because, yeah, you must feel good about making a difference in the lives of your own community. But when you think about that big picture, about how many people's lives might have been impacted, that must make you feel good.
Heather Pearce:Yeah, and places. I know they're looking at getting an mri somewhere in um. You know wa, which same thing remoteness, it's not necessarily volume, but it's you know how they get someone to an appointment in perth and they're all the way up. No, I don't actually know where it was which would help this story, but I guess for me it's it's knowing that you know those um, that work will help those other communities as well. And I don't think remote communities like there's a lot of consistency in the challenges that remote communities face, regardless of where we are.
Kath Hume:Yeah, and actually globally. Because it was interesting, we spoke a lot to Canada during COVID and we spoke to a lot of countries, but I was amazed by how similar Canada was, because I would have always thought, you know, in my head I think Canada is a freezing cold country, we're a hot country, like there just didn't seem to be too many similarities. But yeah, when speaking to them it was like, oh, we're all humans, we're all facing the same challenges, and that's a really good example of how Canada were ahead of us in terms of COVID impact. And so some of the conversations we had with them were really useful, because I remember they were talking about they'd been experiencing their third wave and at the time I was thinking we're never going to have a third wave, like it was really phenomenal to me just the thought of it, but that it was on our radar, we started preparing for it and yeah, and then it hit us like a freight train.
Heather Pearce:Yeah, that's right, it did too. Yeah, and actually Kath's research. I remember when we started working with Kath she said I went and did my, she did too. Yeah. In Canada with a mining company and she was like this is crazy. You were like you're the same as them. Yeah, so there's, I think you're right. Globally as well, yeah, Cool, yeah, so I think you're right globally as well.
Kath Hume:Yeah, cool, well, I could talk all day. I have been looking forward to this for ages. Thank you so much. I love the enthusiasm and the positivity and I just can't wait to share this because I think it's such a great story and I think other people, hopefully, will listen to it and think oh yeah, okay, I can make a change myself too, and nothing's ever out of the realms of possibility. It's worth giving everything a go.
Heather Pearce:And can I say one more thing about collaboration? Yeah, can I just encourage if you've got any listeners, you know, get on a board, like being on the PHN. They've got a clinical advisory board for the Primary Health Network which is, you know, supports GP practices across New South Wales, and they must go to hear me speak and go. Here we go again, because I'm like I will bring these issues home and if you're just like complaining about them to each other, you're never going to make a difference.
Heather Pearce:So you actually need to get to the places who are funded to fix those problems and whinge to them, because then they will like listen and try and change those policies and the funding and those things which you know that that needs to happen. But unless they know about these problems, they don't, they can't change it.
Kath Hume:So that goes back to that collaboration I think, like you spoke of earlier and you know I always bang on about curiosity, creativity and courage, but I think that's the curiosity piece where people need to say what do I need to know? Who are the people I need to speak to? Because it's hard to collaborate if you don't know that those opportunities exist. So they've been brave enough to go and connect with people when you are collaborating, but asking lots of questions and saying who do I need to speak to? What are they interested in? How do I sell my need to them?
Heather Pearce:and yeah, and I think there's this part of like, you know, this imposter syndrome thing that is well, I'm a snow tea and I'm, you know, just like what's my opinion got. But you have to like you actually, if you want change to occur, you actually need to be part of that change and and be promoted. Promote what the issues are so they can be fixed, because if you don't do that, then it's.
Kath Hume:I don't think we're actually going to get the change that we need yeah, and and I just love that you're involved in it as well you're not just complaining, you're finding the solutions, but then you're also implementing them and you're seeing it through, trying, trying to. Yeah, thank you excellent, all right, well, thank you so much. It's doing a great job. Thank you, kath. Excellent, all right, well, thank you so much. It's been a great conversation and I really appreciate all the time you've spent in preparing. So thanks, heaps. Awesome, thank you See you, thank you.
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