Forming family friendly workplaces, together with Emma Walsh

Emma Walsh is a visionary who created Australia's first dedicated Return to Work service for parents, Parents at Work, a social enterprise supporting both organizations and parents to achieve mutually beneficial outcomes while managing the juggle of work and family commitments.

Emma shares her story and how she continues to advocate for parents so they can make a valuable contribution to the workforce while sustaining rewarding and fulfilling family life.

Emma's talks to us about:

• the critical role of the Manager in enable positive work experiences
• Australia's progress against the rest of the world
• the role of education in promoting family friendly workplaces.

She explains that the workplaces is one of the top three factors impacting children's lives as a key reason for progressing her work.

Emma is confident she will reach her target of benchmarking 500 organisations by 2025 to provide a clearer picture of what works and what we can do to create a brighter future, together.

The Reimagined Workforce podcast is brought to you by Workforce Transformations Australia Pty. Ltd.
All opinions expressed are the speaker's and not the organisations they represent.
If you have a story about a workforce transformation to share and would like to be a guest on this podcast, please contact us at kathhume@workforcetransformations.com.au.
Connect with Kath Hume on LinkedIn

Purchase Kath's book Learn Solve Thrive: Making a difference that matters in a fast and complex world:
Learn Solve Thrive: Making a difference that matters in a fast and complex world : Hume, Kathryn Lee: Amazon.com.au: Books

Transcript

Emma Walsh: 0:00

We have all sorts of organisations that talk about wanting people to bring their whole selves to work, but actually I'm not sure that organisations really mean that half the time. So, if we are going to make those statements as organisations, then we need to really mean that and back that up.

Voice over: 0:17

This is the Reimagined Workforce Podcast from Workforce Transformations Australia, the podcast for people and culture professionals seeking to drive meaningful, impactful and financially sustainable workforce transformation through curiosity, creativity and data science. In this podcast, we hear from talented and innovative people making a positive difference for their people, their organizations and those their organizations serve. They share stories and learnings to help others on their path to transforming their workforce today and tomorrow. Now here's your host, Kath Hume.

Kath Hume: 0:57

Emma Walsh is the founder of Australia's first dedicated Return to Work service for parents, Parents at Work, a social enterprise supporting both organisations and parents to achieve mutually beneficial outcomes while managing the juggle of work and family commitments. Emma campaigns for flexible working rights of parents to ensure they are able to make the valuable contribution with the time and capabilities that they have. Parents at Work has helped thousands of working mums and dads and their families navigate their career, parenting and well-being. Emma is a Mum of three. She has twin boys who are 17 and a daughter who is 12. She lives in Sydney, Australia, and is an author, international speaker and advocate campaigner on improving parental leave and flexible work rights for working parents. She consults to organisations on how to create family-friendly workplaces and has been recognised as one of Australia's top 200 businesses of tomorrow by Westpac in 2017. She's been a finalist of the Australian Human Rights Commission Business Awards, the Visa Business Awards, and was the President of Career Development Association of New South Wales and was shortlisted for the New South Wales Telstra Business Woman of the Year Award.

Kath Hume: 2:13

I was introduced to Emma by Alison Hernandez, who was on the podcast last year. Being a Mum of four, this topic is one that is very close to my heart. As someone trying to support organisations to solve complex problems and challenging workforce issues, I see the enormous value people like Emma are making to the economy and the quality of life for all of us. Emma, welcome to the Reimagined Workforce podcast.

Kath Hume: 2:38

Thanks Kath, it's great to be here, it sure is and, just to put this into perspective, I think I contacted you during 2022, right at the end, and obviously that's not the best time of year to be organising things for 2023. But I do remember very vividly that we were having a conversation while I was on a bus driving around Vietnam, struggling to find some Wi-Fi on some bus in Vietnam, but desperate to finally connect with you. So it's awesome that we've actually made it within 2023.

Emma Walsh: 3:11

That's right, isn't it? Oh gosh, the juggle of trying to fit all these things in is always a challenge. Thanks, Kath, for having me.

Kath Hume: 3:20

It's so good to have you here, so would you mind just giving us a brief rundown of how Parents at Work came to fruition?

Emma Walsh: 3:28

Well, like anything, I think when you start something, there's always a personal backstory to these kind of things, and mine is no different in that I was in my early journey of parenthood and my career and having that intersection point where I was thinking right, I'm starting a family, how is this going to work with my job? And I come from an HR background and I've had a really interesting career both in London and Australia in some big HR roles in professional services and financial services roles. And what I had noticed in my time in doing that is when I looked above me and I saw others trying to manage work and family life, particularly the women who I reported to or had contact within the organisation. Two things struck me. One was either they were really extremely challenged by it and were finding it very difficult to access any kind of flexibility, looked very stressed most of the time in doing it, and so that sense of being a duck paddling you could see actually lots of things going on and then trying to paddle really, really hard underwater but trying to above the water almost to keep up appearances that no, this is not going to get in the way, I'm fine, I'm managing this. And there was virtually no part time at all. And if there were part time roles available, they were generally roles that had been, I guess, de prioritised in terms of seniority. They didn't have people reporting to them. People had definitely decided to quote make that sacrifice and gone. 'Oh look, I just want some part time work. If I can just keep my job, it's fine. I don't need to be a manager, anyway.' So all sorts of different compromises that I saw going on in the organisation Just to give context as to when this was we're talking almost 20 years ago, so this is a long time ago, early 2000s but certainly the workforce then around discussing motherhood, let alone, fatherhood, and work and careers that really didn't want to go in the same sentence and workplaces didn't really want to understand the problem.

Emma Walsh: 5:48

And so I thought, right, ok, it is really interesting because I could see also the discrimination happening on the other side. So being in HR is often talking to leaders around people coming back from parental leave and helping them navigate their journey back in, and often coming up against the managers saying literally I don't want this person back part time. Find a way to get rid of them. And I remember thinking, this is so wrong, but I felt incredibly powerless actually in that moment to be able to actually do anything about it, and so I thought, gosh, that's going to happen to me, that'll be me when my time comes. And I thought, no, I don't want that to happen to me. I'm going to change this before I have to deal with this. So At that stage I made the decision that I would step out of a corporate role in an organisation and I would start my own business, because that would give me the flexibility I wanted, but it would also allow me to use my skillset as an HR consultant to the best of my ability, and that I could find a way to juggle that with the children, because I would be able to do that under my own steam.

Emma Walsh: 6:58

And so I did that. I stepped out and created an HR consulting business, and really Parents at Work emerged almost as side hustle hustle, something that, because I was passionate about it, I felt not everyone going to be be able to do what I done and step out and start their own business and not should they know, and maybe I can start supporting when back to work. Maybe I could start a career coaching business. Maybe I could start working with organisations to try and build some education and awareness programs, and so that's how it started really, and the rest is history.

Emma Walsh: 7:31

17 years on, this is this is how all the business is now the same. I gave birth to it the same year I did my twins, so it's been such a journey in that time and year on year. I just say that this conversation gets easier in terms of discussing the need for this in workplaces, which is great. B ut I must admit I did expect there'd be a whole lot more progress, much, much faster than there has been. It's been a very long time to get any kind of you know traction on supporting paid parental leave, equalising it for men and women. It's been a lifelong journey in many regards. So that's a snapshot, I guess, of my story, my why, as I am going to do this, and perhaps a reflection on some of the progress that you know I've seen made.

Kath Hume: 8:21

It's interesting that metaphor of the duck paddling and that need to keep that smiling face, when I have this really strong memory of feeling like everything was just so precision planned and if one card fell the whole house would fall, but never, ever feeling I was able to let anyone see that I had any doubt or any fears around that, that concept of paddling and just never, ever feeling like anyone was getting the best out of me and that that was where I really struggled was I wanted to be a really good Mum, but I also wanted to be a really good employee, and how to achieve both while you're pretending that you don't have the other is.. I found, like, so if you're in the school yard, you don't want to admit that you actually have to run home because you've got a meeting or you can't go to the school assembly for whatever reason. But equally, I actually felt often like I wasn't able to really even talk about the fact that I had I'm sure no one wants to know that someone's got four kids but, I think too.

Kath Hume: 9:30

I wonder if, because you've been so close to it, you're not seeing as much progress, because I think that there has been huge progress. Maybe it's not what we would have hoped for, but I think if I look back at what that looked like when I had my first child 25 years ago, j ust no consideration for you know, it was almost you have you have a child, see you later. But I was just really really fortunate to have some female managers who weren't parents at the time, who actually advocated for me as well. So I am very fortunate that there are people out there like yourself who had a vision and could see that there's value in finding ways to make things work.

Emma Walsh: 10:12

Yeah, look, thank you for that. There has been progress. Yes, absolutely, of course, I think it's. How do we? I mean, there's a difference between incremental progress and, you know, obviously getting a leap, and there's been opportunities through these in the last decade or more, and you would have experienced it too, because I would imagine, 25 years ago you didn't get any paid parental leave unless you were lucky enough to work for an employer that offered it, so you know, compared to where we are now, the ability to access paid parental leave for more, more available, and we do have a scheme now. So we have.

Emma Walsh: 10:49

We had these moments in the last sort of decade or more where they were real shifts, and obviously one of them was 2010 when we got paid parental leave into Australia. But people saw that, as obviously a momentous change and, and that this was really important. But I think, at the same time, for many, they didn't realise how far behind Australia was in relation to our paid parental leave, and we still are. We still are one of the least generous nations when it comes to investment in paid parental leave. The average in the OECD nations is 52 weeks, and so we are still so far behind at 20 weeks.

Emma Walsh: 11:28

So, yes, it's good we see it incrementally improving and great We've come from nothing to 20, yay.

Emma Walsh: 11:35

But I would hate to wait another 15 years until we get to 30 weeks and that's pretty much the track that we're on, because we did not see for 13 years any improvement at all in our paid parental leave scheme.

Emma Walsh: 11:50

So that's why I'm continually agitating for more investment in this, more change in this, because it's still a long way to go. And I think maybe we can pick up this point also about managers and how lucky you were that you had a great manager that supported you. It happened to be a female manager that was able to sort of empathise with your situation and obviously support you and your career at that time in a moment that really mattered to you, and I can't tell you how critical that is, because you can have a wonderful policy in your organisation, b ut we know that if you do not have a leader in that organisation that's sponsoring you, supporting you, mentoring you, empathising with you at that point in time and supporting you to continue the way that you're able to manage your work and career, then it's almost impossible. We know managers are gatekeepers to flexibility, to career advancement and so on, and we need organisations to realise this is more than just having a nice paid parental leave policy.

Kath Hume: 12:50

That's needed, and I think it's, I don't know. I wonder if it's mindset, because sometimes I feel that there is just this barrier because people just believe it might not work and so there's this lack of courage to give it a try. So I was really fortunate that one of my managers allowed me to work from home in a time when no one else worked from home. I was honestly it was a large, large organisation I was the first person to work from home and just being brave enough to say, let's give it a go, I think that if the mindset wasn't there that maybe this could work, then we're not even going to try. Can you talk to us about how Parents at Work then actually in an operational way works with organisations to help move the dial?

Emma Walsh: 13:44

Yeah, well, you heard me just reference policy being important. Sure, we absolutely need to have good policies and organisations, and that means looking at parental leave policies, our flexible work policies, our caring policies, our wellbeing policies and making sure that they're actually doing what they were intended to do. And that sounds strange, doesn't it? I mean, why wouldn't they be doing what they are intended to do? But you'd be amazed and, I think, interestingly, particularly parental leave policies.

Emma Walsh: 14:18

It's not unusual for us to have organisations come forward to us and say, hey, we want to either introduce one or we need to revamp ours, and we know it needs improvement. But we're not sure exactly what we would do, and usually it starts with a oh, we're thinking about going from 14 weeks to 16 weeks. What do you think? And I go well, let's just take a look at the whole positioning around it as well.

Emma Walsh: 14:44

And so many of them have got these really complicated, long paid parental leave schemes that you know 20 pages long, to sort of wade through all the yes, you can do that, no, don't do that almost like a legal document that would put anyone off actually really taking full advantage of that. And so one of the things is thinking about how we show up in relation to those policies, because I often see that paid parental leave policy of all the social policies that organisations offer from obviously flex or others that paid parental leave is the one that is the most generous in terms of the way that it's framed up, the caveats on them, the legalistic language used on them, almost written in a way that we don't really want you to take this, and only you can take it, under these conditions, in this way, and so we do need to think about, well, what does that actually communicate to our people?

Emma Walsh: 15:44

Yeah, what's the intent and what does that communicate? We know in organisations many organisations that men don't think paid parental leave applies to them, so they don't read the policy because I do think it's just for the women in many regard. But what policies? What's their intent? Who can access them? Are they accessible? Are they inclusive? So that's one of the key things we do. We're a workplace advisory business. We look at organisations' social policies to make sure that they are where they need to be. The other thing that we do is we are an education provider. So we run leadership programs for organisation leaders, but we also run employee learning sessions as well for employees.

Emma Walsh: 16:29

And you heard in that introduction it's all around the career, family and well-being and the intersection of those. To really help people think about well, where am I right now? What are the things that might be getting in the way of my work-life well-being and how can I thrive at work and at home? And that's really our motto is how can we help employees to thrive at work and at home? Because we know that when we do that is brilliant for businesses just as much as it is brilliant for individuals, because we have all sorts of organisations that talk about wanting people to bring their whole selves to work, but actually I'm not sure that organisations really mean that half the time. So you know, if we are going to make those statements as organisations, then we need to really mean that and back that up.

Emma Walsh: 17:15

So Family Friendly Workplaces is something that we did launch with UNICEF Australia a couple of years ago, and most of the work that we do is around benchmarking organisations to see where they sit against this stuff and to help identify the gaps that they have and then putting in place the learning and development solutions that help organisations to close those gaps. And we know if we do that, then we're helping that organisation contribute to closing their gender equality gap, to help with that work-life well-being conflict I talked about and really to help create a more safe and productive workplace. So that's, in essence, what we do.

Kath Hume: 17:51

With your benchmarking, do you look at organisational level? Are you able to break it down into professions and look at what we're doing in certain professions across our economy?

Emma Walsh: 18:03

Yeah, we can certainly break it down in industry. So when you say professions, definitely in relation to industries, in relation to what we do with people, leaders versus employees the data is really interesting, with benchmarked over 400 companies now, and so what that does is give us a really great snapshot of what workplaces across Australia generally are doing, what they're investing in and where their gaps lie. And that's wonderful data for public policy professionals, but also for policy people in organisations too, so that they can understand where the mood is actually, if you like, what's the benchmark looking like and where do we need to shift the dial. So it's really valuable data and it complements a lot of the data that we would be collecting.

Kath Hume: 18:52

And are you able to look at people who are successful and dig into what they're doing, that it's making them successful, and utilise that in the work that you do in your advisory.

Emma Walsh: 19:03

Yeah, I mean, look, obviously what we're doing by doing that benchmarking is starting to do what we call impact survey results, so we're able to see where organisations are benefiting from having those kind of policies in place.

Emma Walsh: 19:17

And then we're getting them to do case studies so that we can actually publicly share those case studies. And a lot of them are all available on the website for anyone to go and have a look at to really gain inspiration around. Okay, well, what are organisations doing that's working around parental leave or flex or caring or well-being. So this is really useful because not all organisations are obviously at the same. They come at a different starting points, different workforces and so on. So the more case studies that we can collect and share, the more inspiration that that provides to others and we know that the does. When one organization in one sector benchmarks and certifies, then that's really encouraging and motivates another organisation in the same sector to come forward. So it's perhaps unsurprising that we've seen pocket the particular industries really quickly get on board and follow suit. So that's really encouraging.

Kath Hume: 20:18

It's that nudge theory, I guess, where if you see someone else do it, but I also think if you see someone else doing it and it works, that gives you that faith that, okay, maybe we could do that as well. So I'm thinking to we've mentioned a lot around return to work for parents, so that early days of child rearing, what about beyond that? I found that I put all my kids into childcare when they were babies because my logic was they're asleep most of the time, they're not actually really going to know if I'm there or not, but I would like to be there when I have to drop them off and pick them up from school and things like that. So in your work do you extend into the older ages of family life?

Emma Walsh: 21:02

Oh, absolutely, and I just want to be really clear that we have a really broad definition of family that we support. So, whilst the organisation started very much from that personal place that I talked about around supporting parents, we are also about supporting everyone, because we all belong to a family and at any one time in our lifetimes it's highly likely that we're either going to need to be cared for or we'll be caring for somebody else in some fashion, and it's in that moment that we have that need, that. How is our employer going to rise to meet that need? It's really what we're trying to address. So it's a recognition. This isn't just for parents, it's not just about women or children. It's about all of us having a need. All of us have a life outside of work and family commitments, whatever that means to us.

Emma Walsh: 21:56

So I think that's really important for us in our work, and so, when we think about the education services that we provide in under career, family and well-being, we have a very broad base of learning material that we share. So, yes, there's ever. We have everything from the classics that you would expect, from raising toddlers, right through to raising teams type courses that are available for people to Run and listen to it any time that a lot of those are on demand. But we also run a lot of work life well-being sessions that are Launch and learn type sessions that anyone can dial into and listen on a whole range of topics, different ages and stages of life. We work with lots of other organizations as well, so we have a huge partnership network, lots of different Organizations that we partner with that are experts in different parts of, let's say, the family well-being story, you know, and that also provides great which content to both organizations and employees. So we are, I guess, a conduit for others as well that are doing some great work in this space as well.

Kath Hume: 23:05

That collaboration is so important. I don't think any of us can achieve what we want to achieve alone. So what do you want to achieve next?

Emma Walsh: 23:13

That's a great question. Well, I mean, we've got a pretty ambitious goal that we're on target to meet, which is good, which is to benchmark 500 workplaces by 2025, will totally exceed that target, which is awesome, and I think it's fascinating work. I feel totally privileged to be doing it because it is pioneering the work that we're doing under family-friendly workplaces. To benchmark and collect this data Is the first in the world to the extent that we're doing it, and that's great to see Australia leading on the on the world stage around program like this, and that means that we're able to share this information with other countries that are looking at doing the same thing, which we're doing, and so I would really like to see as many workplaces as possible step forward to be benchmarked. It's free to do it, so there's no barrier there. This is sort of we do have this model of no workplace left behind, and why are we so focused on workplaces will? Because most of us got to work, and works the big part of our life.

Emma Walsh: 24:16

We spent a lot of time there, and the partnership with UNICEF has been a really important one because UNICEF a few years ago so it certainly declared a campaign to create family-friendly workplaces around the world, and it's because it recognized that, whilst they did great work with Government on government policies, great work in the community that we all know UNICEF for, but they determined that the third pillar in which children's lives are impacted is workplaces, and it had gone largely untouched. So the work that we're doing is really about Getting this message out Globally that being a family-friendly workplace matters. It is absolutely a part of the solution to solving the gender gap, the gender inequality in the pay gap, to the wicked problem of work-life conflict and the impact that has on a nation's well-being, and so my mission will continue to be talking about family-friendly workplaces Around the world, really so we can. We can get organizations to adopt great socially responsible policies in their organizations, just in the same way they're having to do with environmental policies. So very much Leaning into that ESG framework.

Kath Hume: 25:30

I love that you refer to national well-being, the fact that we're not just dealing with individuals here, that if we improve the quality of life of one person and they are able to contribute more, then it just becomes cyclical and Exponential and we can actually all benefit from that. And as you said earlier not on, not when we're recording, but you said it takes a village so we're all in this together and I love that we're doing it for the right reasons. Not because it's been legislated, not because you know somewhat we need to do it because it looks good in it, payah but we're doing it because our Organizations benefit the people in the benefit, the people here we serve. Throughout organizations, there's mutual benefits to begin. So I love that. Just before we conclude, can I ask you what I ask all my guests? What does your reimagined workforce look like?

Emma Walsh: 26:21

Oh, it's great question. Look, in many ways We've started to achieve what I've hoped and worked for for a very long time, which is access to hybrid working the ability to Work from home or work on the road or wherever you are able to, and be able to do so together in an office with others, remembering that obviously, not all of us in a position to be able to do that, but I think every one of us that is working in an organization does have the ability to actually access some type of flexibility, not always the same as another organisation would offer, but some sort of access to flexibility. So each organisation being really committed to having a flexible work policy is one of the most important things. We know that that drives much greater workplace inclusion, much more workplace participation and again, great things for more women looking to access work and juggle family life responsibilities. So flexibility needs to and a hybrid working needs to stay. It shouldn't be this battle of, you know, office versus home, but that actually all of it is offers something of benefit and so recognising how do we get the best of both worlds.

Emma Walsh: 27:43

It's really important, and I guess the second is definitely a further investment in paid parental leave and organisations seeing that as an investment, not a cost, and that can hugely return on an organisation's employer brand, certainly in relation to helping it attract and retain candidates. There's so much evidence around paid parental leave being a really great attraction strategy and retention strategy for people beyond it being just the right thing to do to contribute to something like that. So they're the things I want to see continued to be invested in, and so this idea of how do we help workplaces and, by the way, and employers I'm one of them, I'm an employer too how do we help organisations and employers recognise that being a socially responsible workplace is not only the right thing to do but it's good for business and it's good for people. So, yeah, expect to hear more from me on all of those topics constantly and pushing your envelope on that we will definitely be watching one of the things that when you mentioned around hybrid.

Kath Hume: 28:51

I'm obviously very, very passionate about that, but I think it's the choice. It's doesn't have to always be the same, but at least some roles can't be hybrid, but at least give people the choice to have some form of control over what that looks like. And I think when the employer and the employer come together and work that out together is where both of those needs can be met and there's an understanding and empathy of well, I understand why my employer might be asking for that, and then I can come to the table, but I can also then stipulate what my expectations or hopes and dreams are, that maybe we can come to some middle ground that works for both of us. That's right. Okay, so I will put in a couple of things in the show notes, but I will definitely put in a link to your LinkedIn. Is there any other way you'd like people to contact you if they've got an interest in becoming a family friendly employer?

Emma Walsh: 29:46

Yeah, well, I think that's great, just to get in touch, and you could use the info@ familyfriendingworkplaces. com as well. That's good. Thank you, I think that's probably the best.

Kath Hume: 29:57

Brilliant, excellent. It's been so good to finally connect Emma.

Emma Walsh: 30:00

Yeah, you too.

Voice over: 30:01

I love what you're doing.

Kath Hume: 30:01

I love it I think you've achieved an enormous amount and I can't wait to see what comes next. Thank you so much, Kat.

Emma Walsh: 30:07

Well, it's been great. Thanks for having me and thanks for your work. And, yeah, I'm sure this won't be the last time we talk.

Kath Hume: 30:14

I hope not. Thanks so much, Emma.

Emma Walsh: 30:17

All right, take care.

Voice over: 30:18

Thanks for listening to the Reimagined Workforce podcast. We hope you've found some valuable ideas that you can apply to transform your own workforce today and tomorrow. Additional information and links can be found in the show notes for this episode at workforcetransformationscomau slash podcast. Please share this podcast with your community and leave us a rating to let us know what we can do better for you.